This is quite the touchy subject for me. Maybe I shouldn't have used the terminology of "Soul" in my posts during the live stream, BUT I believe Mammals have a spirit. Is it on the same level as Humans?....No, BUT they feel Love, Hate, Devotion, Loyalty, Recognition, Sadness, Fear, Depression and every other emotion known to man pretty much. Yes Man...Because of his soul is above animals on the Creation hierarchy, but it doesn't make them something to be dismissed. I felt Bullied and Attacked during this live stream even tho I said "Let's agree to disagree. All I'm gonna say is MY beliefs are between me and my Lord. He understands why I feel the way I do. End of discussion.
Romans 8:18 “For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. 23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.”
This Passage is talking about the new heavens and the new earth, and creation being redeemed from the curse of the fall. “ 19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. ”
Also “23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.” Our bodies are not redeemed until Jesus returns. We do not get new physical bodies in heaven, [though all pain etc. is gone in heaven.] But we will receive new bodies at the return of Christ.
We all agree that there are animals in the new heavens and earth. But are they in heaven is what we disagree on.
Do animals have souls?
Animals have personalities, and character traits. [Your dog is different from my dog, there is no dog that acts exactly like my dog does, with his quirks and personality. Etc.] But as much as I love my dog, and am “friends” with him, he is not created in the image of God. And he does not have an immortal soul as only humans do.
Animals have life in them, so in that sense they have a spirit. But it is not an immoral life as humans have. We are created in God's Image separating us from the rest of creation. That is why we can eat animals, because they do not bare God's image. We are not animals. That is why you can put an animal down, but we are to preserve human life at all costs. And to murder a person is to commit a crime deserving of the death sentence.
Now you may get angry with me for what I am about to say, but that is a cost that I have counted. Animals do not have souls therefore when they die, they simply cease to exist. They neither go to heaven nor hell but just, simply stop existing.
Now before you call me a hateful cold monster, or whatever choice words you'd like instead... I absolutely love my pet, and when he passes I will be very upset and grieved. But my emotions don't change the order of the world.
Originally before the fall there was no death, therefore the animals did not die. But when Adam sinned all of creation fell into sin. Now there is disease, sickness, death, etc. And as it says in Romans all creation was subjected to futility and is groaning for Christ to redeem this fallen world.
Now will there be animals in the new heavens and earth?
I do not know for certain, but there is much evidence that there will be. God made the world perfect and there were animals in it, therefore it is safe to assume that there will be animals in the new creation. But only God knows. [Now to be blatantly clear, I believe that there will be animals in the new heavens and earth.] I do not know that there will be animals in the new creation for sure, but this I do know either way it will be glorious!
Now onto the white horses in the book of Revelation....
First of all, the white horses in Revelation are most likely poetic expressions, about the destruction of the temple in 70AD. [ But I won't get on the topic of Eschatology now, but would be more than happy to discuss it with anyone who is willing to.]
But if they are actual horses in Revelation. Do you not think that God could make one? He spoke the world into existence it is not insane to think He could simply speak a mighty white horse into existence.
Now onto Balaam's donkey.
Here's the context.
Numbers 22:20 “And God came to Balaam at night and said to him, “If the men have come to call you, rise, go with them; but only do what I tell you.” 21 So Balaam rose in the morning and saddled his donkey and went with the princes of Moab. 22 But God's anger was kindled because he went, and the angel of the Lord took his stand in the way as his adversary. Now he was riding on the donkey, and his two servants were with him. 23 And the donkey saw the angel of the Lord standing in the road, with a drawn sword in his hand. And the donkey turned aside out of the road and went into the field. And Balaam struck the donkey, to turn her into the road. 24 Then the angel of the Lord stood in a narrow path between the vineyards, with a wall on either side. 25 And when the donkey saw the angel of the Lord, she pushed against the wall and pressed Balaam's foot against the wall. So he struck her again. 26 Then the angel of the Lord went ahead and stood in a narrow place, where there was no way to turn either to the right or to the left. 27 When the donkey saw the angel of the Lord, she lay down under Balaam. And Balaam's anger was kindled, and he struck the donkey with his staff. 28 Then the Lord opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, “What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?” 29 And Balaam said to the donkey, “Because you have made a fool of me. I wish I had a sword in my hand, for then I would kill you.” 30 And the donkey said to Balaam, “Am I not your donkey, on which you have ridden all your life long to this day? Is it my habit to treat you this way?” And he said, “No.”
31 Then the Lord opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the Lord standing in the way, with his drawn sword in his hand. And he bowed down and fell on his face. 32 And the angel of the Lord said to him, “Why have you struck your donkey these three times? Behold, I have come out to oppose you because your way is perverse before me. 33 The donkey saw me and turned aside before me these three times. If she had not turned aside from me, surely just now I would have killed you and let her live.” 34 Then Balaam said to the angel of the Lord, “I have sinned, for I did not know that you stood in the road against me. Now therefore, if it is evil in your sight, I will turn back.” 35 And the angel of the Lord said to Balaam, “Go with the men, but speak only the word that I tell you.” So Balaam went on with the princes of Balak.”
Now I'm not too sure why this came up in the discussion today. But God speaking through the donkey was a miracle, Miracles are supernatural; by definition, breaking the laws of nature. Therefore God using the donkey to get Balaam's attention was supernatural. So the animal speaking doesn't mean it had an immortal soul.
Also Matthew 3:9 “And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father,’ for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham.”
Luke 19:40 “He answered, “I tell you, if these were silent, the very stones would cry out.”
In conclusion:
Animals do not have immortal souls, they have spirits in the sense that they have life, but it is not eternal life. Animals neither go to heaven nor hell, but simply stop existing.
All of creation is groaning and longing for the return of Christ, when He redeems this earth and makes all things right again. It is safe to believe that there will new animals in the new creation.
We love our pets and it breaks our hearts when they die. We live in a fallen world and this is a part of the curse. But Jesus will make all things right. And in heaven we will be so full of the joy from being in the presence of the Lord we won't even think nor care about our pets not being there.
Jesus will make all things right, And Romans 8:18 “For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.” “24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.” Let us patiently wait for our Lord to return, by doing what He commanded us to do. To take dominion over the earth by preaching the Gospel to the ends of the earth, and taking dominion over creation, till He calls us home to be with Him.
“Joy to the world, the Lord is come!
Let earth receive her King!
Let every heart prepare Him room,
and heav'n and nature sing,
and heav'n and nature sing,
and heav'n, and heav'n and nature sing.
Joy to the earth, the Savior reigns!
Let men their songs employ,
while fields and floods, rocks, hills, and plains
repeat the sounding joy,
repeat the sounding joy,
repeat, repeat the sounding joy.
No more let sins and sorrows grow,
nor thorns infest the ground;
He comes to make His blessings flow
far as the curse is found,
far as the curse is found,
far as, far as the curse is found.
He rules the world with truth and grace,
and makes the nations prove
the glories of His righteousness
and wonders of His love,
and wonders of His love,and wonders,
wonders of His love.”
~Joy to the World, Isaac Watts
Christ will redeem this earth Far as the curse is found! Praise God!
Much love in Christ,
Delanie Bee 💕
PS:Please feel free to criticize and push back against my stance if you disagree, I will not at all be offended if you do so. I am human and can be wrong.
This is quite the touchy subject for me. Maybe I shouldn't have used the terminology of "Soul" in my posts during the live stream, BUT I believe Mammals have a spirit. Is it on the same level as Humans?....No, BUT they feel Love, Hate, Devotion, Loyalty, Recognition, Sadness, Fear, Depression and every other emotion known to man pretty much. Yes Man...Because of his soul is above animals on the Creation hierarchy, but it doesn't make them something to be dismissed. I felt Bullied and Attacked during this live stream even tho I said "Let's agree to disagree. All I'm gonna say is MY beliefs are between me and my Lord. He understands why I feel the way I do. End of discussion.
Romans 8:18 “For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. 23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.”
This Passage is talking about the new heavens and the new earth, and creation being redeemed from the curse of the fall. “ 19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. ”
Also “23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.” Our bodies are not redeemed until Jesus returns. We do not get new physical bodies in heaven, [though all pain etc. is gone in heaven.] But we will receive new bodies at the return of Christ.
We all agree that there are animals in the new heavens and earth. But are they in heaven is what we disagree on.
Do animals have souls?
Animals have personalities, and character traits. [Your dog is different from my dog, there is no dog that acts exactly like my dog does, with his quirks and personality. Etc.] But as much as I love my dog, and am “friends” with him, he is not created in the image of God. And he does not have an immortal soul as only humans do.
Animals have life in them, so in that sense they have a spirit. But it is not an immoral life as humans have. We are created in God's Image separating us from the rest of creation. That is why we can eat animals, because they do not bare God's image. We are not animals. That is why you can put an animal down, but we are to preserve human life at all costs. And to murder a person is to commit a crime deserving of the death sentence.
Now you may get angry with me for what I am about to say, but that is a cost that I have counted. Animals do not have souls therefore when they die, they simply cease to exist. They neither go to heaven nor hell but just, simply stop existing.
Now before you call me a hateful cold monster, or whatever choice words you'd like instead... I absolutely love my pet, and when he passes I will be very upset and grieved. But my emotions don't change the order of the world.
Originally before the fall there was no death, therefore the animals did not die. But when Adam sinned all of creation fell into sin. Now there is disease, sickness, death, etc. And as it says in Romans all creation was subjected to futility and is groaning for Christ to redeem this fallen world.
Now will there be animals in the new heavens and earth?
I do not know for certain, but there is much evidence that there will be. God made the world perfect and there were animals in it, therefore it is safe to assume that there will be animals in the new creation. But only God knows. [Now to be blatantly clear, I believe that there will be animals in the new heavens and earth.] I do not know that there will be animals in the new creation for sure, but this I do know either way it will be glorious!
Now onto the white horses in the book of Revelation....
First of all, the white horses in Revelation are most likely poetic expressions, about the destruction of the temple in 70AD. [ But I won't get on the topic of Eschatology now, but would be more than happy to discuss it with anyone who is willing to.]
But if they are actual horses in Revelation. Do you not think that God could make one? He spoke the world into existence it is not insane to think He could simply speak a mighty white horse into existence.
Now onto Balaam's donkey.
Here's the context.
Numbers 22:20 “And God came to Balaam at night and said to him, “If the men have come to call you, rise, go with them; but only do what I tell you.” 21 So Balaam rose in the morning and saddled his donkey and went with the princes of Moab. 22 But God's anger was kindled because he went, and the angel of the Lord took his stand in the way as his adversary. Now he was riding on the donkey, and his two servants were with him. 23 And the donkey saw the angel of the Lord standing in the road, with a drawn sword in his hand. And the donkey turned aside out of the road and went into the field. And Balaam struck the donkey, to turn her into the road. 24 Then the angel of the Lord stood in a narrow path between the vineyards, with a wall on either side. 25 And when the donkey saw the angel of the Lord, she pushed against the wall and pressed Balaam's foot against the wall. So he struck her again. 26 Then the angel of the Lord went ahead and stood in a narrow place, where there was no way to turn either to the right or to the left. 27 When the donkey saw the angel of the Lord, she lay down under Balaam. And Balaam's anger was kindled, and he struck the donkey with his staff. 28 Then the Lord opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, “What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?” 29 And Balaam said to the donkey, “Because you have made a fool of me. I wish I had a sword in my hand, for then I would kill you.” 30 And the donkey said to Balaam, “Am I not your donkey, on which you have ridden all your life long to this day? Is it my habit to treat you this way?” And he said, “No.”
31 Then the Lord opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the Lord standing in the way, with his drawn sword in his hand. And he bowed down and fell on his face. 32 And the angel of the Lord said to him, “Why have you struck your donkey these three times? Behold, I have come out to oppose you because your way is perverse before me. 33 The donkey saw me and turned aside before me these three times. If she had not turned aside from me, surely just now I would have killed you and let her live.” 34 Then Balaam said to the angel of the Lord, “I have sinned, for I did not know that you stood in the road against me. Now therefore, if it is evil in your sight, I will turn back.” 35 And the angel of the Lord said to Balaam, “Go with the men, but speak only the word that I tell you.” So Balaam went on with the princes of Balak.”
Now I'm not too sure why this came up in the discussion today. But God speaking through the donkey was a miracle, Miracles are supernatural; by definition, breaking the laws of nature. Therefore God using the donkey to get Balaam's attention was supernatural. So the animal speaking doesn't mean it had an immortal soul.
Also Matthew 3:9 “And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father,’ for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham.”
Luke 19:40 “He answered, “I tell you, if these were silent, the very stones would cry out.”
In conclusion:
Animals do not have immortal souls, they have spirits in the sense that they have life, but it is not eternal life. Animals neither go to heaven nor hell, but simply stop existing.
All of creation is groaning and longing for the return of Christ, when He redeems this earth and makes all things right again. It is safe to believe that there will new animals in the new creation.
We love our pets and it breaks our hearts when they die. We live in a fallen world and this is a part of the curse. But Jesus will make all things right. And in heaven we will be so full of the joy from being in the presence of the Lord we won't even think nor care about our pets not being there.
Jesus will make all things right, And Romans 8:18 “For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.” “24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.” Let us patiently wait for our Lord to return, by doing what He commanded us to do. To take dominion over the earth by preaching the Gospel to the ends of the earth, and taking dominion over creation, till He calls us home to be with Him.
“Joy to the world, the Lord is come!
Let earth receive her King!
Let every heart prepare Him room,
and heav'n and nature sing,
and heav'n and nature sing,
and heav'n, and heav'n and nature sing.
Joy to the earth, the Savior reigns!
Let men their songs employ,
while fields and floods, rocks, hills, and plains
repeat the sounding joy,
repeat the sounding joy,
repeat, repeat the sounding joy.
No more let sins and sorrows grow,
nor thorns infest the ground;
He comes to make His blessings flow
far as the curse is found,
far as the curse is found,
far as, far as the curse is found.
He rules the world with truth and grace,
and makes the nations prove
the glories of His righteousness
and wonders of His love,
and wonders of His love,and wonders,
wonders of His love.”
~Joy to the World, Isaac Watts
Christ will redeem this earth Far as the curse is found! Praise God!
Much love in Christ,
Delanie Bee 💕
PS:Please feel free to criticize and push back against my stance if you disagree, I will not at all be offended if you do so. I am human and can be wrong.